Naked Men Talking: Serge from Men In Touch
In the conversation, we talk body-neutrality, the power of connection, and the importance of slowing things down.
For our podcast, Naked Men Talking, I caught up with Serge from Men In Touch.
In the conversation, we talk body-neutrality, the power of connection, and the importance of slowing things down.
Men in Touch offers a range of workshops in the field of deepening the connection to self and others. What drew you to this field of work?
My background is in psychology. I realised I was more drawn to the somatics and embodiment and that kind of therapy rather than the talking therapies.
That led me to bodywork and sports massage, clinical massage and then into yoga - working specifically in the queer community.
Then, Men In Touch happened to me, and I jumped on board.
What was your relationship with your body like? Did you always feel a sense of strong connection?
I had this deeper connection with what I was feeling in my body rather than thinking and going through the process of analysing through the brain.
My body was calling me to to move and to to do things with it - you're anxious, you go for a run - rather than me sitting down and overthinking and over-analysing things and getting into this pattern of anxiety and stress.
You said that Men In Touch happened to you? Could you talk a little bit about how you became connected with Men in Touch?
I met Andy Saich who was the founder and the main facilitator with Men in Touch. I started working with him and assisting him in the workshops.
It was during those years where he got his diagnosis and suddenly he passed away.
I had to jump in and take over while he was in treatment. After Andy's passing, I carried on the work.
There was an existing community around Men In Touch? You were able to continue that relationship that had been built with those men?
Yes - Men In Touch has been running for over twenty-five years.
I'm bringing my own kind of flavour to it, and maybe that has brought new people into the group, but there's always people that come to the group remembering Andy and his work and feeling connected with that part of Men In Touch.
How would you describe the flavour that you're bringing to the work?
I think I am very slow in the process of getting into the main course.
I really love starting the workshops with a meditation and then going into an undressing ritual, and then getting us through a process of becoming more aware of these very subtle energies that happen through that process, rather than going into the space and expecting people to be okay with being naked or taking off their clothes straight away.
That has made us a little bit more quiet in the way we approach this. It's a bit more subtle.
Do all the Men In Touch events involve getting your clothes off?
Yes, most of the events are naturist events. I think it's important to to be in that space and be naked, because there's something profound that happens when we go through that process together and we allow ourselves to be seen in that process and in that space of being vulnerable and releasing all these layers of clothing. There is almost a validation in that brave step we're taking to to be with each other in that natural self. Connecting with others and having the opportunity to offer and receive touch while being in that vulnerable state is also very important.
It's great to see all these different bodies around you and just to see all ages and shapes and sizes and and complexions, and you start to feel that okay, maybe the thing I've been worrying about my body is not such a bad thing or it's normal because everybody is different and everybody also has the same worries or anxieties about their bodies. It kind of normalises or takes the sting away from from that experience.
Have you always been comfortable getting naked in front of other people?
For me, being naked has always been a neutral space. My parents were not naturists, but - when we were growing up - if a door was open or if a towel would fall, no one would freak out, it would just be very normal.
Also going through my yoga practice it's been about how my body responds to movement rather than just about being naked.
Who are the men who come to the Men In Touch events? What are they looking for?
The common ground is people wanting to explore different types of connection and different types of intimacy and perhaps look into their patterns of behaviour when it comes to intimacy, consent, body image, or addiction. To strip all these things down and be in the space with someone else without having all these distractions.
There's also people that just enjoy being touched and enjoy offering touch to others.
There's also people that are still exploring their sexuality - it's a safe space to do so under instruction and under the containment of boundaries and consent. They can explore themselves and how they feel in the presence of other naked men and within the spectrum of masculinity as well.
What about the age range of the guys that come along to these events?
It varies according to the theme of the workshop. If the workshop is a bit more playful, I tend to get younger people and perhaps people that don't necessarily want to just come for meditation or just to be naked.
An average would be people around their forties, but it varies with every workshop.
How would you describe the way that sexual energy is navigated within a space like that?
Some people like to push boundaries a little bit and some people are more about wanting to be a good student. It's quite interesting to see how that expands in the space.
If you think of the various interpretations of Tantra, sexual energy is a powerful force and can be used in a healing way or in all sorts of different ways. But also when you've got a room full of naked men and we're exploring how our bodies react, naturally that unleashes sexual energy. Do you have any rules about what's allowed and what's not allowed, or how do you guide the sexual energy in a way that's comfortable for the group or the container that you're holding?
Having the workshop starting with a meditation, it really puts everyone on the same plane, on the same level. We all come into the workshop having different expectations and maybe different levels of arousal and excitement, but having gone through a 20-minute meditation, it puts us all on the same boat. It's true that sometimes the energy gets very hot and very explosive but there are guidelines and we do a lot of consent exercises as part of the initial ritual of the workshop.
I use very explicit language in terms of what is expected and what is not expected. I do say to people, we're not going to finger anyone, we're not going to fuck anyone today. This is not what we're doing. People know what they're supposed to be doing or what they shouldn't be doing.
There's nothing wrong with fingering or fucking but there's different people in different spaces that would probably facilitate that better than me.
Why do you think that style of work is better suited to other people - rather than yourself?
I'm more of a "no" person than a "yes" person when it comes to this.
I think we deserve good sex and good connections and deep intimacy with people. If something is lukewarm, I'm not really drawn into it. I have this high expectation that I need that kind of really special thing in order to get warmed-up and to get me going in that way.
That's my personality. I'm more of an introvert and more of a slow burner and reserved person, so I don't really jump into this kind of fiery situation so easily.
I was going to ask you how your work with Men In Touch has shaped your relationship with your body and your experience of intimacy, but it almost sounds like it's the opposite of that - that your approach to intimacy is what shapes Men In Touch?
It almost kind of feeds off each other.
I like things to be slow. There is much more of a deeper connection building up with people while you are in that slow process of getting to know someone's body and someone's desires and someone's responses to your touch rather than jumping into things.
Working with Men In Touch has made me more aware of what what I like and what I don't like in terms of how I approach intimacy - becoming more aware of how my body responds to that.
Through the Men In Touch events, are you almost coaching guys on the benefits of taking things slow - what that feels like to take it slow? Our experience of hookup apps and the way that a lot of our sexual encounters unfold condition us that it's very fast and transactional - we get in, get the job done, and get out. What you're giving people is an experience of: What if we took our time? What would that feel like if we weren't rushing, if we were learning as we went?
Hookups serve their purpose and sometimes this is what you need. But when that becomes the only way that we connect with others, it's similar to if you can only be intimate with your body if you watch pornography. If that's the only way you can do that, then it's becoming a bit of a pattern of avoidance or disassociation.
It's about having options and experiencing lots of different ways of of approaching your body and approaching the connection with others - that will teach you what really makes you tick and what really makes you excited.
Given the work that you do and the journey that you've been on, are there any insights or lessons that you wish that you'd learned earlier, or anything that you wish that you could tell your younger-self?
Just to appreciate my body more and not try to change things and stress about body image.
Also, to loosen up a little bit and have some fun. I think that's what I would say to my future-self as well - just enjoy things a bit more.
Gareth Johnson