Naked Men Talking: Tory Dobrin
Taking us behind-the scenes of Les Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo.
Founded over 50 years ago, Les Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo are returning to the UK for a regional tour and performances in London presented by Dance Consortium.
Although they lean into the comedy, this is an affectionate celebration of classical and romantic ballet - with an all-male cast combining drag and top-tier dance.
For our podcast, Naked Men Talking, I caught up with Tory Dobrin - the artistic director of Les Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo.
We talk role-models, gender, and the power of being subversive.
The Trocks are a comic ballet company playing with gender and parodying the classics of the art-form. You began dancing with the Trocks in 1980 - why was this a style of performance that appealed to you?
It really wasn't the style, necessarily. A friend of mine was in the company and the Trockadero was going on a nine-week tour to South America and that sounded like lot of fun. The tour was absolutely the most fascinating experience I had, especially in terms of my performing career, and I got hooked.
What was your background before hitting the Trocks?
I had moved to New York from Texas where I had been in Dallas Ballet. I was just going job to job - I worked at New Jersey Ballet, I worked at Radio City Music Hall, I was starting to audition for Broadway type stuff, and then Trockadero came along.
Talk a little bit about that first tour to South America - what was that experience like for you?
I was always a little bit of a nervous performer, insecure, I guess in a way, as a lot of dancers can be. And it was one thing, first of all, to put on all that makeup and be in a tutu and a pointe shoe and the audience is laughing and having a really good time - it was just like being at a party where you're telling a good joke and everyone's laughing. The good cheer was absolutely what hooked me into the actual work we were doing.
Also, I was a little bit of a ballet nerd and I really liked the old style of ballet, which in the 70s still was kind of around, but it's not so much around anymore. Especially the old Russian companies that had very stylised technique. It was very theatrical.
We performed in opera houses in Brazil and Argentina and Chile.
It was the height of the military dictatorships. Audiences came to the theatre looking for an outlet to express something different than what they were experiencing in the street - they were just so unbelievably responsive and fantastic.
It must have felt quite subversive at that time? Not just in South America but also in New York? Does it still feel subversive?
I grew up in Los Angeles, in West Hollywood - there were gay people everywhere. The Trocks never felt subversive, it felt normal to me.
It's an all-male comedy ballet company that uses drag. So there's still some areas that need that exposure.
The Trocks were formed in 1974. You joined not long after that. How has the company and its mission evolved over that time?
It's not so much that the Trockadero has evolved but that society has evolved.
The political climate here is very discriminatory after a lot of progress.
When I joined in 1980, it was considered a career-wrecking move. All my colleagues and friends and dance teachers said, don't do that - it will destroy your career. But it was something that I wanted to do.
Now, it's become a career choice. We're getting dancers right out of the academy who want to join. We're getting emails from teenage guys who are looking forward to auditioning when they graduate from high school.
The two elements that are very obvious is that the dancing technique has grown immeasurably, and also we have a lot of children in the audience now. In the 70s, that was unheard of but now the kids love it.
But we remain an all-male comedy ballet company that uses drag as part of the comedy and has a lot of gay sensibility. And it's because everyone is gay on stage. So that's what we continue to do.
Do you have to be queer to be part of the Trocks?
We have had a couple of straight guys in the company. And we also have had a guy who joined us straight and when he was with the company, he became gay. And then when he left, he went back to being straight. You know, whatever that that's his journey. So no, you don't have to be.
You were talking about how you get messages from young aspiring dancers who look to the Trocks and see that as the career path that they want to follow - does it provide a role-model of some sorts or a pathway for queer men who want to embrace their sexuality and their dance?
Yes, for sure. When I joined, I hadn't been in drag before, but the guys who are auditioning now, they've all been in drag and gone out in drag. They know how to do makeup. They're very clear about what they want to do.
Also pointe-work, when I joined, I hadn't been on pointe - dancing on the tips of your toes. If you haven't done a lot of pointe work, it takes about a year to get comfortable and to know how to deal with the technique. But these guys are coming already completely comfortable and ready to go. And that makes the rehearsal director's job a lot easier. It also elevates the company's technical ability.
Dancers often have a bit of a problematic relationship with their body because of the nature of the work and the scrutiny of the art-form. With the gender-play of the Trocks overlaying that, does that somehow further complicate the relationship that the guys have with their bodies?
The thing about the Trockadero is that we don't really deal with gender in the way that you just asked. We are dealing with ballet and ballet has roles. You have roles that are normally taken by women - their gender is female. But we're not trying to have the audience think we're women. We don't really deal with the political sense of gender - we deal with the ballet world.
In the productions, every member of the company play a dual role? They have a female persona and a male persona?
Everyone has to do both but I don't think of them as male and female, I think of them as roles.
Do they come in with with a clear idea of what their character persona is going to be for the female roles, or is that something that the company shapes?
Sometimes people come in thinking it's female impersonation in a ballet world. That's not what we do. We're an all-male comedy ballet company. We're going for the old world, big personality diva. Some guys are really clued in with that, and some young gay guys are not. So, it takes some shaping.
In terms of the future of the Trocks, what creative direction are you heading in? Do you have an endless seam of classic theatrical productions to draw on or are you looking for new directions?
Dance companies are basically under siege from the political climate here in the United States - we're just doing our best to stay afloat. The Trump administration has made it very difficult for anything that's out of the straight and narrow to succeed. Theaters are nervous to book us because they're afraid of losing their funding.
Doesn't that link back to the Trocks as a subversive art-form? If you're feeling that heat from a funding point of view, that feels important somehow - those boundaries need to be pushed and the Trocks are the company that can do it?
You're absolutely right.
In Trump's first term, in the first year we went to a lot of places in Texas and other places which we had never been invited to. That was because the people who were running the theatres wanted to say "fuck you" to Trump. It was really interesting that we were subversive in that regard then.
What about your relationship with your body? Through all of your work across your career and your work with the Trocks - how has that relationship evolved over time?
Generally speaking, a dancer is very comfortable with their body because they're used to looking in the mirror in a leotard and tights and everything is exposed.
I always felt very comfortable with myself.
When you're dancing all the time and you're dealing with bodies in front of you, it kind of loses the mystery a little bit - you're surrounded by these beautiful bodies all the time. It just becomes normal.
What do hope that people feel when they come to see the Trocks perform?
I hope they walk away saying, wow, that's the greatest show I've ever seen and I can't wait to come back.
We also hope that during the show that everyone will get really boisterous. We don't like it when they're quiet. We like it when the laughing is happening.
We've been to the UK quite a bit. We're hoping that our audience will come back and enjoy the show. We know that times are difficult now - all over the world - but this would be a few hours to just sit back and enjoy yourself. That's the importance of comedy and theatre.
Tour schedule
Thursday 30 April & Friday 1 May
Bord Gais Energy Theatre, DUBLIN
Grand Canal Square, Dublin 2 D02 PA03
Tickets: +353 (0) 1 677 7999 / www.bordgaisenergytheatre.ie
Tuesday 5 May to Wednesday 6 May
Sadler's Wells, LONDON
www.sadlerswells.com
Tuesday 12 & Wednesday 13 May
Wales Millennium Centre, CARDIFF
Bute Place, Cardiff CF10 5AL
Tickets: 029 2063 6464 / https://www.wmc.org.uk/
Friday 15 & Saturday 16 May
WOLVERHAMPTON Grand Theatre
Lichfield St, Wolverhampton WV1 1DE
Tickets: 01902 42 92 12 / https://www.grandtheatre.co.uk
Tuesday 19 & Wednesday 20 May
Mayflower Theatre SOUTHAMPTON
22-26 Commercial Road, Southampton SO15 1GE
Tickets: https://www.mayflower.org.uk
Tuesday 26 & Wednesday 27 May
NEWCASTLE Theatre Royal
100 Grey St, Newcastle upon Tyne NE1 6BR
Tickets: 0191 232 7010 / www.theatreroyal.co.uk
Friday 29 & Saturday 30 May
Alhambra Theatre BRADFORD
Morley St, Bradford BD7 1AJ
Tickets: 01274 432000 / www.bradford-theatres.co.uk
Tuesday 2 & Wednesday 3 June
MILTON KEYNES Theatre
500 Marlborough Gate, Milton Keynes MK9 3NZ
Tickets: 0333 009 6690 / https://www.atgtickets.com
Friday 5 & Saturday 6 June
NORWICH Theatre Royal
Theatre St, Norwich NR2 1RL
Tickets: 01603 630000 / www.norwichtheatre.org
Tuesday 9 & Wednesday 10 June
The Marlowe Theatre CANTERBURY
The Friars, Canterbury CT1 2AS
Tickets: 01227 787787 / www.marlowetheatre.com
Friday 12 June
Grand Theatre BLACKPOOL
33 Church St, Blackpool FY1 1HT
Tickets: 01253 290190 / www.blackpoolgrand.co.uk/
Tuesday 16 & Wednesday 17 June
EDINBURGH Festival Theatre
13-29 Nicolson St, Edinburgh EH8 9FT
Tickets: 0131 529 6000 / www.capitaltheatres.com
Friday 19 & Saturday 20 June
His Majesty’s Theatre ABERDEEN
Rosemount Viaduct, Aberdeen AB25 1GL
Tickets: 01224 641122 / www.aberdeenperformingarts.com/his-majestys-theatre/
Tuesday 23 & Wednesday 24 June
BUXTON Opera House
Water St, Buxton SK17 6XN
Tickets: 01298 72190 / www.buxtonoperahouse.org.uk
Gareth Johnson